Hi people!

I have got the rejection message like this

''We regret to inform you that photo #xxxxxxxxxx was not accepted. Your photograph did not reach our desired level of aesthetic quality.

Please feel free to submit other photographs for us to review. If you have any questions, we suggest reviewing the training under Information and Rights.''

I know what is aesthetic quality. But my English is not strong enough to grasp the meaning of the last sentence. What is 'we suggest reviewing the training under Information and Rights' ? Do I have the possibility somehow dispute the rejection?

StarJumper wrote:

Thanks, Mat.

Now in the morning I re-read the phrase and see what it means. I was proposed to go and learn some lessons about Fotolia's understanding of 'aesthetic quality'. What strikes me is that this understanding sometimes differ radically from how designers see it. Several images declined here by the reason of 'low level aesthetic quality' are bestsellers elsewhere. Weird.

Yes, I know what you mean, StarJumper! I just had a video rejected because it failed to come up to FT standards for "Aesthetic Quality." Yes, the same clip has been accepted on several other sites.

I've always thought that "Aesthetic Quality" was and extremely subjective concept but I had never really researched the term.

If you would enjoy an adventure in obfuscation, ambiguity and far-out philosophy and psycho-babble, just do a Google Search for "Define Aesthetic Quality." I just did that and it was some experience.

I discovered that there is no universally accepted definition for the term. Whole books have actually been written attempting to define the concept but no consensus has emerged.

I did glean the following from Wikipedia: The nearest thing to a definition that I could find.

"Aesthetics (also spelled æsthetics) is commonly known as the study of sensory or sensori-emotional values, sometimes called judgments of sentiment and taste.[1] More broadly, scholars in the field define aesthetics as "critical reflection on art, culture and nature."[2][3] Aesthetics is a subdiscipline of axiology, a branch of philosophy, and is closely associated with the philosophy of art.[4] Aesthetics studies new ways of seeing and of perceiving the world.[5]"

There! Now that we know what it means, it should be much easier to understand those rejections based on "Aesthetic Quality!"

I hope this will be helpful, StarJumper!

2 Jill Fromer:
You've provided an interesting investigation. But I doubt that inspector study terms before rejection on low level "Aesthetic Quality". It would be much better from practical standpoint if he/she investigate first how simila images sell on Fotolia. Since inspector did not do this then I percieve the rejection as baseless, because his/her understanding of Aesthetic Quality is strongly subjective.

Frankly I would not rise the topic at all having rejected images been accepted on other places. But hey! those images are BESTSELLERS there and also some of them luckily accepted by Fotolia are BESTSELLERS HERE. Now imagine. Should I be mute about the situation? Or should I somehow appeal to Fotolia administration? I wrote to support and got polite answer kinda 'relax, dont worry, be happy'. But I see the problem 'cause unmotivated rejections hurt both my and Fotolia income.

I understand that my post will change nothing. We are not allowed to dispute with inspectors or appeal to some third party judge here on Fotolia. Too bad. The whole class of my images that sell like hot cakes by other agencies will not sell by Fotolia.

Hi everyone!
I've been hired by a company to go and take some pictures of their personnel (for the files and the credentials they give 'em) and until now, everything has worked out fine.
But now they want me to take pictures of their personnel as if they were the models. They want to use the people who work in the company (an insurance company) to illustrate their brochures, magazines, Internet homepage, etc and they want me to take the pictures.
Until now I've dedicated to work with objects, animals and landscapes and my only work with people has been with only one model (professional) (who is a friend of mine, by the way)
I'm asking desperately for help here.
Can someone give me some tips and advice as of how to work with people who aren't models for photos that do need them??? They want me to use half the company (about 150 persons) for about the same amount of pictures. I know there are people who don't really care about being pointed at with a camera (photogenic), but some of the guys I have to work with get really really nervous... What can I do??

Rzepe



Hmm, based on what you've told us and the fact you have got no photo's in your portfolio I would consider passing on the job so they can find someone better qualified. That isn't a jab, it's just that you aren't going to learn how to shoot that many people in different scenario's with different light by posting in this forum. For many it has taken years of practice and study to master the art of photography. Others pick it up much faster, but to jump into a job of this magnitude is a big responsibility and if you aren't qualified to do so you need to be honest with yourself and with your client.

Either way, I wish you the best of luck.

If you are going to do it...get a couple of pocket wizards and a portable softbox you can stick on a monopod with a flash at the very least. NO DIRECT FLASH!

Mat



Thanks everyone. Kerioak, I'm going to relax myself in order to get the other guys more relaxed. Matt, I did passed the job, for the best but they did asked me, as a favor, to take 5 pictures for them they need urgently (that is because the agency they want won't go with them until thursday and they need those 5 pictures done by tuesday.) (I did make clear that I did not have experience in the field of Stock-photographing people and that I can't promise a thing)

For those five pictures I'll be taking them at a T.V. recording studio, with all the lights they use. (I do know what kinds of light to use, when, to create what effect and I do know that direct flash brightens skin, gives unwanted shadows, etc.) (Thanks shock). I, too, have hired someone who is going to put them make-up.

I have taken pictures with my model friend (I made his "book" and some shots for an agency) and everything went great. The only reason I haven't post them is because he signed "exclusive" image rights with his agency and every single picture I take goes for the agency. I haven't used another model for my pictures because I do not own an studio (even though I know how to use almost every tool).

I was asking for your help as to "how to make people confortable in front of the camera". Can you advice me some more in that field???

Hi Zepe,

1- Relax your subject by asking their name and what is it that they do. Call them by their name from then on. -Write it down if your memory is like mine. - I could use an upgrade -. These are not professional models. They have no training on how to act in front of a camera. Most will tell you they never look good in a picture. Tell them "you got to be kidding me, you got great expressions!". Some people don't have a great simile, so don't force them to. Use their focused expressions, like talking on the phone, reading, signing, typing, walking... The more real world action, the better for advertising. Ask the company to include a makeup professional in their/your budget. Touchups are very important to avoid unwanted oily skin shines and you will look good! - like a pro.

2- Identify your stage. Avoid corner walls. Look for some window light to help you, not to be the background but an aid that washes what's behind your subject. Glass office cubicles are great but be sure you or your lights don't show reflected onto them. Take a polarizing filter.

3- Lighting - Take an on camera flash you can turn around and point it towards your back, preferably at a 45 degree angle encompassing the ceiling and wall behind you, assuming these are white or light in color. That will disperse the light better than a large soft-box. Bring one of those foldable reflector and reflect the window light towards the back of your subject slightly from above. That's called a hair light and will separate your subject from the background,

4- Exposure - Use your camera in manual mode, NEVER in automatic. You are in control, not the camera. Cameras are not as intelligent as you are. Believe me! Measure the exposure necessary for the background using the camera meter and just adjust the aperture if your test shot shows that the flash produces an over exposed face. - I doubt it because is point to the walls behind you- Anyway lighter/brighter pictures are better than dark ones needing photoshop work that makes them noisy.

5 - Browse some business photos in this site for composition ideas.

6 - Avoid the liquor mentioned above before the shoot. Now, what happens after to celebrate your pictures is none of our business. I'll take a couple for you if you come back and tell us how it went. You can do it! The best of lucks!

I work with models on a regular basis, and it's hard enough with professional and aspiring models - impossible with people who have no interest or experience in modeling and who may even dislike being photographed. If it were me, I'd pass on this job. But if you're determined to go ahead with it, I find that holding a conversation with the model and using his/her name with boatloads of compliments and positive reasurrance will go a long way toward getting the look I want. If I'm shooting the model on the phone, I'll actually have a conversation with him/her as if I'm on the other end of the phone. The goal is to try to make the activity as normal and natural as possible for the model so that he / she isn't trying to pose. If they're looking for shots of their people in their normal work environment, you might even be able to pull this off by getting shots of them doing what they do every day. Your pleasant and relaxed demeanor will help set them at ease. But be ready to shoot a bajillion images to get the right one.

Fotolia Cafe

Fotolia does not have the right to steel from me!
Fotolia is the one who is checking buyers credit cards!!! They take the big bucks for that. We get the peanuts...
And Fotolia takes the peanuts away....
My credits were decreased without my fault.
Fotolia should cover their loss from their share, not mine

Thanks for reading.
Robert



Hi Robert
It is not Fotolia that is "stealing" from you, it is the person that is illegally using someone else's credit card.

When a fraud is discovered - hours or months after the event then the banks demand the funds are returned - all of it, our share and Fotolia's so we all lose out and I think the supplier also has to pay and additional fee on top.

I was delighted a last month to get my first 18 Credit sales (new camera, larger size) of which my share was over 50% - they were all fraudulent.

One of my own credit cards was used illegally for hotel payments and jewellery running into thousands - fortunately the company picked it up and rang to ask what we had been purchasing recently - this was a card used only a couple of times for certain online payments (not here I hasten to add).

Don't blame Fotolia for the refunds - they either trust the clients to pay and do the best to safeguard funds or make it so difficult that none of us would sell anything.

(Believe me I have grumbled but they did manage to convince me that they are doing their best - and I am not the easiest person to convince as the various Support staff would tell you )



I respectfully disagree with you, Robert. I don't like it any more than you do, but fraud hurts us all. I think it would be unreasonable for us to expect Fotolia to pay us when they've been victimized. I've had this happen on another site - only once, fortunately. I suppose there will always be people who choose to steal instead of work. The spread of socialism, especially in the United States, fosters that entitlement mentality, so I think the efforts to fight it will have to intensify.